Curse

Samuel Dravis · Jul 30, 2006, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by silv3rr

Yes, but these things are to be expected no? More and more games are surrounded on looks more than anything now, Anet is simply trying to keep up by "dressing" up their game a bit (although I disagree with this and I am by no means trying to defend them, I'm just trying to see things from their perspective), infact I am almost certain that if this specific horrid UI update didn't occur and things remained the same for the next couple of months, more than half the GW population would be complaining in a different thread about how things are plain and boring (once again, I'm not defending Anet) and how Anet isn't doing enough to keep their customers satisfied which would lead to some stupid debate about whether we should be paying for blah blah blah and then end up having GW compared to WoW again. - Like I've mentioned, video games are flashy, bright and colourful, these sort "graphic" enchancements are to be expected, especially with a MMOGame like GW. If you're fully aware of the fact that you have a physical condition that disallows you to participate in such activities or limits your participation in such, then you shouldn't be playing video games.

I agree with you. That's reasonable; people who can't play flashy games like it quite simply shouldn't play them. My main problem comes in when people have bought the game and loved it, but now their experience is marred by this update. Consider the OP: He played it fine until the new UI; there were no issues (afaik) for him until then.

Flashy is fine when it doesn't get in the way of function. My computer does not use themes for WinXP, just the old win2k interface. I have it this way because the XP theme(s) irritate me and get in the way of what I want to do. If I ever get Vista I will not use Aero (the theme that is the only apparent feature of that OS). I don't use the interface to do things in windows and I try to get it out of my way when I do not use it. Same thing with GW: I'd rather not use some flashy UI because it is not helpful. I play the game, I use the interface. There is a difference.

silv3rr · Jul 30, 2006, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

silv3rr, maybe you don't understand.

A disability / a known eye disorder isn't something you just can't 'get checked out' and then magically fixed.

Anet eithers cares about their playerbase and is willing to fix it, or doesn't, loses players and because of this loses even more players.

I'm by no means trying to start a flame-war of any sort.

Let me repeat again, If you or anyone else has a physical disability (in this case, eye disorder) then you should NOT be playing Guild Wars or any other video game for that matter, as whatever is displayed on that monitor is basically a sequence of flashing lights. I used those rollercoaster analogies for a reason.

I didn't recommend you to go get your eyes checked assuming you already have an eye disorder, and by no means did I mean they can be magicaly fixed. You're pulling my words way out of context.

And I agree, if ANet truly cares about their playerbase, they would be making necessary changes to keep them.

silv3rr · Jul 30, 2006, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel Dravis

I agree with you. That's reasonable; people who can't play flashy games like it quite simply shouldn't play them. My main problem comes in when people have bought the game and loved it, but now their experience is marred by this update. Consider the OP: He played it fine until the new UI; there were no issues (afaik) for him until then.

Ya, that was the point I was trying to make. That is also why I request the OP to tell us what his physical disorder is, so we can better understand and help. Like I said in a my previous post, there is no doubt that there is something wrong with their current UI.

Quote:

Flashy is fine when it doesn't get in the way of function. My computer does not use themes for WinXP, just the old win2k interface. I have it this way because the XP theme(s) irritate me and get in the way of what I want to do. If I ever get Vista I will not use Aero (the theme that is the only apparent feature of that OS). I don't use the interface to do things in windows and I try to get it out of my way when I do not use it. Same thing with GW: I'd rather not use some flashy UI because it is not helpful. I play the game, I use the interface. There is a difference.

Ya, I for one could care less for flashiness, but hey, reality is that the current generation of "gamers" expect so much in terms of eye-candy.

DarkNecrid · Jul 30, 2006, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Yes but silv3rr these same people were fine before the update. Sure, they shouldn't but they could before because it was ok.

Anet is stripping these people of their ability to play, merely because they want a 'flashy' interface. I do not want flashy. I want useful. An interface is not useful if 90% of my alliance is not on anymore / longer then they used to because it hurts them, gives them headaches, or downright makes them sick.

I myself have no physical problems with the current interface, but I have played with disabled people before, and it pains them that they can't play. Tell me, what gives Anet the right to prevent these people from playing? They have done NOTHING wrong.

Oh no my friend, it is Anet who has wronged them.

silv3rr · Jul 30, 2006, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Yes but silv3rr these same people were fine before the update. Sure, they shouldn't but they could before because it was ok.

Anet is stripping these people of their ability to play, merely because they want a 'flashy' interface. I do not want flashy. I want useful. An interface is not useful if 90% of my alliance is not on anymore / longer then they used to because it hurts them, gives them headaches, or downright makes them sick.

I myself have no physical problems with the current interface, but I have played with disabled people before, and it pains them that they can't play. Tell me, what gives Anet the right to prevent these people from playing? They have done NOTHING wrong.

Oh no my friend, it is Anet who has wronged them.

You don't seem to read everything I say in my posts -_- I'm NOT disagreeing with you. I said it's an undoubtly fault on Anet's part.

I know alienating is wrong but... if you have an "eye disorder" you should not be playing video games, simple as that.

Yes it sucks that these recent changes have made it so some people can't play the game anymore, and as I've said, Anet SHOULD MAKE changes so these people that played the game fine before, can continue playing.

EDIT: Also if some of your friends that had no problems before, but are experiencing problems now, they should get it checked out as it might be something serious.

J3mo · Jul 30, 2006, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Poison looks like crap, i can hardly see when someone is poisoned in my group, which sucks because i play rcprot alot

The Hand Of Death · Jul 30, 2006, 02:43 AM // 02:43

DEFINATELY!

I agree 100% no 500%. This new UI update sucks.

Reason 1: Blood looks so close to the actual red of the player.
Reason 2: I don't know if it is likewise for others, but I play a ranger and interupting has become much harder with the new colors. (blue is casting, purple is interupted or stopped, orange is completed correct me if I am wrong)
Reason 3: In observe mode, the blue of the blue teams health bars look so close to when they are dead, making it hard to see damage.
Reason 4: Colors can get irritation, especially the brightness of them.
Reason 5: Everyone just doesn't like it.

You should definately do something about this, I am grateful that you have found friends on this game and I hope that is becomes better for you so that you can keep playing, it is unfair that you can't play. Maybe we can play sometime

.

Minus Sign · Jul 30, 2006, 02:46 AM // 02:46

I’d like to add among changing some of the Guild Wars settings that tinkering with the monitor settings user side might also aide in your problem. Click My ComputerChange a SettingDisplaySettings and adjust color quality and resolution to start. You can also Go Advanced from the Settings tab to further tweek.

Your videocard should also have a way to change its settings. Do you have something like Catalyst for ATI? This is more useful since you can change settings directly to the card, and usually save these changes somewhere to swap between your default and you “Guild Wars” setting.

Your monitor should also have its own UI to help you further tweek the display. This can be accessed from a dial behind a panel to a small pad found on the monitor itself. Adjust Contrast, Brightness and the Color Manager to start. An online search for your monitor or manufactured PC may give you insights on how to do this with the most efficiency.

I hope this information helps you Jenias_Perta_Ectara, though I know that what I’ve supplied is really a temporary solution to what may prove a permanent problem. On a personal note, I have no issues with color or the new UI except that it’s hard to distinguish dead players from leavers. It took some getting used to, but I’ve had no problems with it. That being said, its ugly.

@Anet and Gaile: I know you guys spent some time doing with this, but it gives people headaches and makes the game unplayable for others. And by “minority”, how do you know? I never got an email asking if I like this new UI. I wasn’t consulted, and I doubt you consulted anyone else in this thread/forum either. There are times when the people survey do not represent the majority of the people who purchase your stuff. I think you need to re-consider your stance on this issue.

Adding to the “minority” I /signed off on this. In a game based on player skill, we shouldn’t be fighting our UI. I don’t like it.

One last thing; I suggest to both sides of this argument, that you re-consider before attacking one another. Do not let this thread become a flame war; the topic is too serious if people are having a physical problem to go along with your casual in-game headaches. Take a step back before you respond in anger and try to remember that these people are not attacking you, they are attacking your stance on the issue (something they have every right to do in a free-speech forum). Lets try to be adults about this.

Gaile Gray · Jul 30, 2006, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Guys, you have totally misread my post, and for any confusion or misunderstanding that I created, I do apologize. Please understand that I'm not "angry," and I'm certainly not being dismissive of genuine problems with the UI. What I have done is suggest things (tweaking settings, for instance) that might make it more comfortable for those players who say they are experiencing discomfort. Realistically, that is the first place to start.

I do not know that we can simply "offer an option" for the interface. There is coding and functionality on the backend that may not allow what you suggest. I'm not a programmer nor a UI designer; neither, I assume, are you.

With that in mind, my reaction to "Give us a choice," or "Redo the design," has to be that, in truth, it may not be possible to do so. Let's look at another situation from years ago and you'll understand what I mean: Game X came out in EGA. The next chapter came out in VGA. Some small percentage of people found that VGA didn't work well for them, and they protested the change and asked the company to offer the game in the format with which they were familiar. However, the game had been designed using VGA, and a dropdown wasn't feasible. It could be that changes in the programming of Guild Wars make the former interface designs non-functional now, I do not know.

I'm going to suggest that it's likely that we're none of us doctors or lawyers here, so assumptions about medical conditions, risk of exascerbation to same, or lawsuits because of alleged "accessibility issues" are way, way over the top.

Real problems should be addressed, I totally agree. Comments about preference, and suggestions for improvements to functionality will definitely be heard. This is a beta period, after all, and your feedback is very welcome!

DarkNecrid · Jul 30, 2006, 04:24 AM // 04:24

Well, you are PR, you do take the heat. I would like to hear what a developer or someone with the tech knowledge's stand point on this IS as the graphics and stuff for the old interfaces do seem to be retained within the client executable file, and as all of the interface "changes" dont add anything themselves nor change the functionality of any of its parts they just change the looks, it seems it would be easily possible to change them from within the engine itself, and make this client side (relieving stress from the server, obviously).

I think if it is possible, it should be done, as the burden of fixing such a little thing can help a LOT of people and keep your fanbase.

(Plus, I just want to play the old C1 interface.

)

EDIT: Also, do forgive me for saying your post was inhuman..but it did not seem like you wrote it :S

EDIT 2: Also, I am not "doubting" your knowledge on the subject, but if you want stuff on the engine you go to a developer, just like if you want info on the music you ask the composser!

EDIT 3: Assumptions are evil! :P

EDIT 4: "Real problems should be addressed" The problem is dictating what is a "real" problem and what is not. Even if you can't switch UI's a simple color changer would be MOST appreciated and could also fix these peoples problems. Plus it would be a snap to implement.

OlMurraniKasale · Jul 30, 2006, 04:41 AM // 04:41

I agree that the OP should have the option to simply choose between old and new interfaces. Even if only she had this issue and no one else in the world had this issue, she deserves her choice. It is that important.

Having programmed in my time, I know that having the interface switch is a 'moments' coding effort, and any decent coder can do in short order.

I agree that the world of GW needs to be open to whatever it can be. Nothing is lost by saying yes, but everything is lost by saying no.

jakb · Jul 30, 2006, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Causes my eyes to strain as well and I have no "eye disorders". This ends up in a mild persistent headache. Hoping it will be adjusted.

blackbane · Jul 30, 2006, 05:46 AM // 05:46

As we live in the world today, planning our futures, or finally living them, getting connected to something you like is always good. Disabilaties, birth problems, ect. are things we have to live, dont have much of a choice really... Those who are unlucky, as i am only one man, i will tell you this. You are damn strong to get by no matter what technique you use, people dont realize... how painfull words can be, how hurtfull stupid things can be. You have to live through that and take it lightly, as you are the superior one. When i downloaded the update, i went into RA, started playing. The new interface was tedious, the shades were annoying... but we cant complain. Anet is doing their best to make us the best game they possibly can, maybe not looking throughout details and outcomes, but do you really think they are trying to harm you? I hope not, despite all the problems we have anet is working to make us want to play more and more, and im sure if that is their goal a custom interface is coming sooner then you think.

those were my two cents /signed

Omega X · Jul 30, 2006, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Umm...what?

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Hand Of Death

DEFINATELY!

I agree 100% no 500%. This new UI update sucks.

Reason 1: Blood looks so close to the actual red of the player.

Blood looks pink on my screen? Are your color settings correct?

Quote:

Reason 2: I don't know if it is likewise for others, but I play a ranger and interupting has become much harder with the new colors. (blue is casting, purple is interupted or stopped, orange is completed correct me if I am wrong)

I play a ranger too, and you will adapt. Its not hard to grasp.

Bluish Green = Casting
Purple = Interrupted
GOLD = Cast Successful

Quote:

Reason 3: In observe mode, the blue of the blue teams health bars look so close to when they are dead, making it hard to see damage.

Most likely because its transparent. They could make it a bit opaque. But its not that hard to see. Check your color settings.

Quote:

Reason 4: Colors can get irritation, especially the brightness of them

That's a matter of opinion. BUT if your color settings are wrong then I can believe that.

Quote:

Reason 5: Everyone just doesn't like it.

Speak for yourself.

blackbane · Jul 30, 2006, 05:58 AM // 05:58

As we live in the world today, planning our futures, or finally living them, getting connected to something you like is always good. Disabilaties, birth problems, ect. are things we have to live, dont have much of a choice really... Those who are unlucky, as i am only one man, i will tell you this. You are damn strong to get by no matter what technique you use, people dont realize... how painfull words can be, how hurtfull stupid thinks can be. You have to live through that and take it lightly, as you are the superior one. When i downloaded the update, i went into RA, started playing. The new interface was tedious, the shades were annoying... but we cant complain. Anet is doing their best to make us the best game they possibly can, maybe not looking throughout details and outcomes, but do you really think they are trying to harm you? I hope not, despite all the problems we have anet is working to make us want to play more and more, and im sure if that is their goal a custom interface is coming sooner then you think.

those were my two cents /signed

Gaile Gray said:
Some changes may be coming to the interface in the future, for design reasons, for functionality reasons, or for reasons of adding new features or options. But I don't foresee us reversing several months' worth of work to revert to an older interface, nor do I see us investing considerable time to develop a whole new design which may be met with as many subjective concerns as was this one.

^^^ sorry i just found this funny. Subjective concerns as was this one, hmmm
people learn from mistakes don't they???????

But I don't foresee us reversing several months' worth of work to revert to an older interface. Changing the colors to be a less irritating takes how many months?

I know the saying.... dont mess with admins, but come on, how fair is this?????

Gaile Gray · Jul 30, 2006, 06:07 AM // 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detis Zan

Wow I didn't even know people had this many issues with the new UI. Simply put it doesn't bother me at all. The ONLY thing that sets me off is the fact you can't tell if someone has either DIED or left the party in the middle of a mission or even PVP.

That is really valuable feedback and it seems that could be adjusted. Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbane

Changing the colors to be a less irritating takes how many months?

I do not read that most people are asking simply for colours changes. Would that truly solve issues like placement, functionality, spell casting windows, fonts, and the design of key elements? Feedback is welcome, and if colour issues are key, sure, that's really good to know! But I sensed there were many different requests for change beyond that. Perhaps I'm mistaken, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

Umm...what? Blood looks pink on my screen? Are your color settings correct?

Colour me confused: What blood?

There is no blood in Guild Wars, so to what does this refer? (Thanks for the explanation, I'm really confused.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Well, you are PR, you do take the heat. I would like to hear what a developer or someone with the tech knowledge's stand point on this IS as the graphics and stuff for the old interfaces do seem to be retained within the client executable file, and as all of the interface "changes" dont add anything themselves nor change the functionality of any of its parts they just change the looks, it seems it would be easily possible to change them from within the engine itself, and make this client side (relieving stress from the server, obviously).

Can that be true? I don't think so. Please note the Options window and you'll understand: The functionality (i.e. programming) is totally redesigned. Check changes to the Guild menu and others, as well. In order to offer C1 or C2 interfaces, it seems to me that we'd have to reverse the engineering in order to remove the improvements such as the "tab" feature in the Options menu and roll it back to the old usability. Either that, or we'd need to do something even less feasible: Take a programmer off his/her tasks to implement the old designs, or take an artist of his/her tasks to artify the old programming. It's seems to me that the interface changes are far more extensive than a new skin, and a drop-down choice isn't likely to be possible. (And certainly I intend to ask the devs who worked on that, but on a Saturday night, it's not something I'm able to do.

)

So just to say it again: Feedback and suggestions are welcome!

Omega X · Jul 30, 2006, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Colour me confused: What blood?

There is no blood in Guild Wars, so to what does this refer? (Thanks for the explanation, I'm really confused.)

The color that the Health Bar changes to when the Bleeding condition is inflicted. (That was my guess anyway)

Wretchman Drake · Jul 30, 2006, 06:22 AM // 06:22

The user is also non-colorblind friendly. My brother is colorblind and he can't tell the difference between when someone leaves or is dead because it's more transperant. That was a dumb interface change that needs to be fixed.

Whiplashr · Jul 30, 2006, 06:34 AM // 06:34

I've read this whole thread, and as someone who has done a fair amount of programming, I can understand that it's likely not just as simple as putting old artwork in place and a toggle between different interfaces. Much has probably changed along the way, making ANET (at the very least) need to bring the older interface into line with the new one, as far as functionality (even if you don't see a difference, there could be many differences in the code and approach used).

It seems to me the best option would be to have even more customization. Allow people to color any parts of the interface to their own liking. Yes, this would also be alot of work, but I think would go a long with way many people, not just those who are disabled. Customization is something that almost anyone can enjoy. Wouldn't you like to be able to choose your own colors for certain things? The more the interface is customizable, the more everyone would be happy. Those that love it in it's standard form could just keep it that way. But those who want to change a color here or there, or a background color of a window, or a font used in a window, they would have the ability to make it the way THEY want it.

I can imagine that a colorblind person could then sit down, and figure out for himself what colors work best against which backgrounds, etc, etc, to get what works for THEM. It may look totaly bizarre to someone who is not colorblind or disabled even. But it would work for them.

I would implore ANET to consider this suggestion for future versions of the game. Most customization would solve the problem, and make alot of people very happy.

DarkNecrid · Jul 30, 2006, 06:40 AM // 06:40

The above poster pretty much hit spot on what I was trying to get across. If letting us pick the old interfaces is not possible, let us at least customize ours with our own colors/effects. (this seems highly plausible as the current interface is already easy to customize just not on a grand level) This would fix nearly every compatible issue with people with problems beyond their own control.

Do it? Well, people lose some time but you might snag more potential customers.
Don't do it? You save time, but people might eventually get driven away by the current interface. (I've stared at it for 10 hours, and I am still not used to it / liking it. *_*)